Alicia Karwat Alicia has over 15 years of corporate experience and has been helping professionals, managers and executives identify and develop extraordinary powers they didn’t even know they had, for over 5 years. To find out more view Alicia's full bio or visit Alicia's website www.keysteps.com.au

Workplace Psychopaths - How To Deal With Them?

By Dr Alicia Karwat, KeySteps Pty. Ltd.

Workplace psychopaths, some estimate that there are about 3% of them in the workplace, and some say that their number is on a raise, but if it is the first time you are working with one and if you are a target of their attention you may start to feel like a paranoid freak. On the other hand workplace psychopaths with milder forms of psychopathic behaviours could be useful if managed properly by organisations.

However, to deal with workplace psychopaths, employers and employees have to know how to recognise them and assess whether they are dysfunctional or can be utilised.

You will be mistaken in thinking that if you meet a workplace psychopath you will spot him or her straightaway. In fact it is not obvious if you had not come across one before. We can be easily fooled and often charmed by them. We do not suspect anything until we start to feel trapped and controlled by them. To make the situation worse, they might be highly respected by their superiors because they usually have a drive, high level of energy, are highly intelligent, appear as natural leaders and they get things done. The paradox is that if you start to complain about their behaviour you may appear as an incompetent underachiever who cannot cope with stress or the demands of work.

Imagine a situation that you are a manager working on a project. You think that you are doing well and the project is well on track and under control. You have scheduled few meetings with clients and your boss says “I will go to these meetings – you have such a good attention to detail, could you do some paper work for me in this time. My PA is too busy today to do it.” You have not expected that, never seen it before, you are speechless. You start to think that your boss is taking over your project. You find yourself in such absurd situations day in and day out. Does not matter what you say or do, it is always wrong. Your confidence is completely shattered and you start to feel like a paranoid freak defending your existence. Does the boss think that I am incompetent?

Actually, it might be quite opposite, you may be a high achiever and you are a target because the boss wants to take credit for your work.

Bosses are also often targeted by workplace psychopaths. In the background, the workplace psychopath will try to undermine the boss and will complain about him/her to senior management at the first opportunity. By the time the boss expresses his/her concerns about the workplace psychopath, he/she is not taken seriously anymore. That happens usually but not exclusively when the workplace psychopath wants their boss’s job.

What makes workplace psychopaths different from the norm is that they are manipulative, impulsive, egocentric, callous, ruthless and remorseless. They use superficial charm, manipulation, intimidation, and aggression to control others and satisfy their own needs. The usual assertiveness does not take us far in dealing with workplace psychopaths. The more you recognise them for what they are the more you will become the target. If you try to deal with them by telling how you feel, the more they will attack you. This is exactly how they want you to feel.

So, how to deal with workplace psychopaths?

Some suggest to document every incident and take it to someone higher than your boss, but to be prepared for consequences such as being managed out or forced out with redundancy. However, based on experiences of others, I would advise to get out of the situation as quickly as you can before it gets out of control. Apply for another job either within the organisation or outside.

I had a discussion recently about workplace psychopaths with an HR manager from a large corporation in Europe. He said that workplace psychopaths do not have emotional intelligence. However, many of them could be utilised in a very effective way. In his organisation, once workplace psychopath character traits are spotted in an individual, he/she is not placed in a leadership position to manage a regular team. He/she is assigned to work and lead on a project basis.

Because of their drive, intelligence, ambition to achieve and ability to get things done, the workplace psychopaths can be very effective in strategic and high impact projects. The people on these projects do not stay usually long enough to become victims of the workplace psychopath’s tactics. Most importantly, the workplace psychopaths want to achieve within very tight deadlines, therefore do not have much incentive to victimise people who work with them. Even more, many people said that they learned a lot from them. The danger is that some might adopt some of the destructive behaviours, believing that that will ensure progress within the organisation.

Have you ever worked with a workplace psychopath? How is your organisation dealing with workplace psychopaths? Maybe you would like to share your thoughts with others. We would love to hear from you.

Further reading:

1. Working with Monsters: How to identify and protect yourself from the workplace psychopaths, John Clarke, Random House Australia 2005

2. The Pocket Psycho, John Clarke, Random House Australia, 2007

3. Snakes in Suites: When Psychopaths Go To Work, Paul Babiak & Robert D. Hare, Regan Books, 2006

The articles appearing on this blog may be copied in full or in part and used in other sources provided the user acknowledges the author of the material, the name of their organisation and that the material was sourced from the CareerEQ blog site.

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107 Comments

  1. I CURRENTLY WORK AT A LARGE LARGE HOSPITAL. ONE OF THE MANAGERS FITS YOUR PROFILE OF A PSYCHOPATH PERFECTLY AND CONSEQUENTLY LOTS OF VERY VERY EXPERIENCED STAFF ARE LEAVING .THIS PERSON DOES TARGET ANYONE WHO IS MORE EXPERIENCED THAN HER WHO WILL CONSEQUENTLY EXPOSE HER LACK OF CLINICAL EXPERTISE(THIS I MIGHT ADD IS JUST ABOUT EVERYONE).THE PROBLEM WITH YOUR ADVISE TO JUST LEAVE THE ORGANIZATION IS THAT IT IS THE PATIENTS ARE AT RISK AS THERE ARE PRECIOUS LITTLE EXPERIENCED STAFF LEFT.WE HAVE HAD MEETINGS WITH MANAGEMENT AND WHICH WAS DISASTROUS AND WE WERE LEFT IN NO DOUBT THAT THE DIRECTOR OF NURSING IS HER “PERSONAL”CLOSE FRIENDS SO GOING ABOVE HER HEAD JUST MAKES YOU MORE OF A TARGET.HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THIS AS I REALLY FEAR THAT THIS IS GOING TO LEAD TO A DEATH OR SERIOUS OUTCOME AS THE SENIOR STAFF THAT REMAIN AS AT BREAKING POINT

    HELP!

  2. Hi Anne,

    I was the victim of a psychopath, it cost me my job, and for a while my sanity.
    I applaud your desire to change things, I tried this too, feeling somehow responsible for the wellbeing of those I left behind but my sanity took priority. Especially in your situation where lives are at stake I understand how you may need to know that you did absolutely everything you could to remove this person from her position.

    Alone you will seem like someone with a personal gripe. Try to contact those that have left, and quietly and VERY carefully scope out others inside the organisation who may be having the same problem with this person. Be very aware that all psychopaths have enablers at a lower or equal level of power when you do this, you cannot let these persons know what you are up to so be very careful how you speak to people until you know you are talking to a fellow victim.

    Form a plan of action together, document all the relevant actions of this person, dates, times, circumstances, events, people involved. Write up a clear and concise complaint that includes facts and your concerns. Then go and talk to a trusted person in HR, your union, a patient safety advocate, or other health industry watch dog organisation and submit your complaint.

    You may well risk your career doing this, so be prepared for the fall out.

    If you do not wish to risk your career, then please get out for the sake of your own well being. You can do good work in other places. Sooner or later this person will fall on her face. You have to know in your heart that there is a limit to your responsibility in these circumstances. You have already tried to bring it to the attention to those who can make a change – if they do not act, they are ultimately responsible.

  3. I worked for a workplace psycopath for three years. This was before I even knew what he should be called. I did know, however that his behavior just wasn’t right. He has risen to be the president of the company - I was his target, fall guy actually, and it cost me my job.

    My old boss has committed embezzlement and fraud.

    I felt like I was in a cult, it cost me a lot of sanity and I have been prescribed several SSRI’s because of it. I am now currently on Effexor.

    If you’re being bullied get out! It will not get better you will just get more damaged.

  4. hello,
    i have been working with a manager at work who is extremely volitile and aggresive but now reading i come to realize im dealing with i workplace psycho, he fits all the criteria!!!!!! if anyone has suggestions to deal with this further please email at dragonflyjoes@bellsouth.net

  5. WOW I´m shock! My boss is a workplace psichopath and today was the first time I hear about the concept,… feeling not so lonely tonight. I commit the mistake to tell my boss that I was leaving the job to work in another institution with whom we have some business contact. My problem is that this person has focus her psychopathy in the person who, I hope, is going to be my boss. She is trying to destroy him and I am desperate. She is using the most vicious startegies to annihilate him cause she said he wants to steel me just to bother her. She is the boss and I´m the one who make all the job cause this women doesn´t know how to make an “o” with a tube, so she knows that when I left she is trouble. But for some reason she thinks I belong to her and has the right use me anyway. My future boss is offerning ALL, the actual say I earn too much so I have to work 7 days a week 12 to 14 hours a day, no benefits, nothing!!! The new position is not still open and my concern is she is doing anything to avoid I be hired. What can I do? Any suggestion most well come to druidax@hotmail.com Sorry for my English!!!

  6. I worked at a company with a psychopath, and in the end she tried pulling the “poor me” card which in turn made me look bad for pointing her out.

    I never socialized with anyone, worked quietly and had 1 friend who got made redundant. I ended up being micro managed so I just quit. I justified to myself that if no one else can see through her tactics, there’s no point in pointing out her wrong doings, so I left.

    It was so unnatural too, I became really depressed and couldn’t face going to work anymore because the boss was staring blankly at anyone who had problems with her.

    Now I’ve decided to leave this profession, but am thinking of writing a book about it to make people more aware. These are highly intelligent ruthless people who will sacrifice alot more than you ever will, so BE VERY CAUTIOUS and dwfinately seek some professional help and don’t remain QUIET - that’s their meal ticket.

    So long as your atmosphere is open, involves everyone respectfully and you get into the habit of CCing or even BCCing someone higher up, you should be safe. Also, nothing scares a bully more than being exposed.

    Do everything in your good nature to remain open with them and your work environment.

    Good luck!

  7. I have been dealing with a psychopath at work now for a month. It’s a new job for me, and he obviously sees me as a threat. He’s systematically undermined me, turned people against me and done a whole host of underhanded things. I’m actually lucky in that, I’m not the only person he’s done it to. So now, there’s a little clique of victims that can compare experiences and build alliances against him. He’s actually leaving for a management role in a bank and has claimed “I’m going to make the people I manage lifes’ hell”, which I can believe!!! These people aren’t human, there is no boundaries to which they adhere and no lines in which they wont cross to defeat their ‘enemy’ or percieved threat. The thing I’ve found is, you can’t give them an inch, or anything inwhich they can use against you; as inevitably, they will. Death to psychopaths! << Irony ;-)

  8. This article has so clearly identified exactly what I went through. I was being supervised by one of these “workplace psychopaths”, she again took credit fo my work, insisted that she give me all instruction not anyone else, thus eliminating my communication with others. She gave wrongful assessments of my abailities, avoided training me on areas I was supposed to be trained on. For one person she even acccused hi of taking kick-back when he ignored her decisions which she had no bearing over his dept. )of course neither he nor I are still wuth the company). Above all she lied about many of her life and professional experiences. But this not to rant, my concern is how the victim is affected. I felt I must have been crazy, I was frustrated, could not express the problem to others, and started to feel completely lacking in ability. An former colleague of mine were speaking about it recently and he said I should have gotten out earlier, there is no other option with these people.

  9. After three years I realize I have been completely fooled. They are very clever and when you realize what it is happening there is not much you can do. You may try, but their bosses already have been convinced otherwise. The more you try to resist or fight, the worse it will get, and it will destroy your career, undermine your self-steam and your family. They will push you to do something illegal, then you get trapped. In fact, you would be surprised of how deep the infiltration has gone. Hope the best, prepare for the worst. Keep your head down, focus, and leave before it damages your health.

  10. I had an experience with a Workplace Psychopath a year ago and it still has me feeling crazy. This article and the above comments have helped me so much. I now see that I am not the only one who has experienced this and that there is a name for it. My friends and family wonder why I haven’t gotten over this but it was such a traumatizing experience. The guy told a bunch of lies and actually tried to frame me for crimes. He also told people I was a tranvestite and all sorts of other disgusting things I am trying to forget. He actually took the situation outside of work and tried to destroy my life in my community too. It was really difficult situation to live through. Thank you for putting a name to this experience.

  11. I always love it when the experts tell people to just leave the job there in because the ‘workplace’ nutcase is too much to deal with. Yes they are deadly, but it’s not easy for everyone to just walk out on their jobs. So I don’t bother reading too many books written by these people becasuse you get to the last chapter and inevitable there it is: ‘Just leave your job’.

  12. I am not even sure what really happened. It seems as if I was working with a workplace psychopath for about a year - I started as her superior, actually. I think I was targeted because I was an acheiver. Or was there an overall plan to get all of the other managers out, to be replaced by younger folk? The abuse shifted from me to others in the company, which is when I recognized the pattern and started talking with the owner about it. It seemed that he had talked with other victims and was going to let her go. There was a lot of drama in that place. A lot of yelling at people who were working crazy hours for her projects.

    Things came to a climax when I finally asked for an additional benefit (more time off - I was feeling very sick concerning her behavior coupled with a bad reaction to going off the pill — incidently she had been asking me about when I was thinking about having a baby almost from day 1 — I don’t know but can guess that this caused me to start missing them, which is when my husband and I decided I should go off them for a while — not realizing the kind of reaction this could cause) that she had suggested earlier. Then there was motivation for the owner to be really upset with myself (or was there?).

    OK - given the working conditions I was perceiving, I had more and more difficulty finding it within myself to send the company work from my personal connections (they have about 4 projects now that started from my connections). This was probably perceived as helping competitors. In a very passive way, maybe it was.

    Then I was let go. If it was planned that I would be let go, couldn’t it have been done more honestly?

    Is it cheaper for the employer to have you quit than go on unemployment? If that was what was going on, then a lot of resources were expended and a number of projects were risked and sabotaged towards that endeavor.

    Is this what is actually heppening in this economy?

    What now, after my confidence has been shaken and I’ve already been managed out? Accept contract work? Try to find a new position? Do a volunteer project ot regain my confidence? All of the above?

    Is it even safe to put things on a board like this? Who is reading it?

    My life is definitely not being destroyed in the communities I am involved with. This could be because I have earned too much trust for that to be possible.

  13. Well the stories are really scary. I am also involved with a workplace psycopath in the medical field, and this guy is really a clever guy. I spotted him directly, and for years he has been confirming all my darker second thoughts. Going through his CV, he has tricked his way up in the system for years and now he is using his title to push down any resistence to be found. Apart from substantially harming patient after patient he is also surpressing any kind of criticism relating to that behaviour, by having a firm grip over the adminstrative bosses above him. The nearest one earned her whole career and her PhD by his assistance, so how sane she ever might be, he has his grip on her. Apart from all the clinical misconduct, we also know that he is heavily involved with a specific medical company, and systematically evading taxes through second and third hand routes.Also this is strongly biasing his scarce scientific production, but he never ever displayes any conflicts of interest. I could go on writing page after page on this persons activities, but in short we are talking of a person who sees everybody as a tool for his own career, lack of remorse, lack of sympathy for patients and clients, no limits or borders when it comes to revenge any resistence and so forth. Personally I am still weighing between putting up further strong resistence versus leaving the field. The point is that if I leave, his destructive conduct will continue until he has destroyed everything around him, so I am not without hope in that aspect. In 2-5 years he will for sure be removed by very strong forces, but do I have the strength to wait and see those days coming or should I just watch the total downfall from a safe distance ?

  14. For anyone needing assistance and more information please go to the lovefraud site, that site is for people struggling to deal with psychopaths in their lives. The book “Without Conscience” is the best I’ve read on the topic. Very thorough - and has a survival guide. The author has studied P’s clinically since the 1960’s.

    I don’t imagine there are too many P’s that do not lie on their resumes. If you can - do a full check on their resume then send in your concerns anonymously to hr. Never ever attach your name or you’ll become a target. Often Hr people are sucked in by them. They’re crazy, not stupid.

    .

  15. After reading all of the comments, the question is still very clear and yet unanswered as for most of the people can’t take decision between standing up to the psycho or to leave the field as advised in the article.

    Leaving the field may seem cowardly and attachment to workplace or love for the work may seem to come in way. However, I feel is that personal safety and sanity comes on top of pyramid of life.

    One should choose that against everything. Because, standing up may seem heroic and the right thing to do, one single mistake would destroy the very work or job for which the person is standig up.

    In recent times, a wise person should go for the least risky option and that has been shown in this article very clearly. If anyone has thought of any kind of innovative ways, kindly share.

  16. He was a psychopath boss. I was an ideal target. I got rid of all the chains he put on me (emotional psychopatic bond, respect to his superficial knowledge, ambition to get a degree) and only went for money. It did not work. He spotted my independent willing, hated my independence. I often chose to do washing up in the lab, but that was my decision, he could not tolerate it, he felt it is a lack of his control. I felt he tried to steal my thoughts and would make me complete victim similar to the others. He actually declared that I was not a woman, as I could not love him. You have to stand up and say,it could cost a lot, but I will keep my vulnerability alive.
    The day when I left, I felt he was afraid of me, as he supposed that i knew his condition, however, I never gave him any clue. My suggestion: leave as soon as possible in silence, you could not help the others. They are under hypnotic sociopathic control. They prefer to stay. Even if they believe in what you say, it would be hard for them to tolerate it. But the chance of belief in you is low, they are extemely sophisticated manipulators and cruel predators. They really like real games. I am happy now, I can smile again, I work twice as much as previously, but finally I am mentally free again. I am out of the hell.

  17. We had a team manager who fitted this description perfectly. At first she spent much time with me discussing operations and individuals professional talent. This was before I knew what she was.

    She then turned on me quite quickly and made life unbearable for many. We had four resignations in two months. Well paid individuals with good benefits. Only one had a job lined up when he left.

    Management also refused to acknowldge a problem.

    I eventually became submissive and carried out my work in the subservient manner she required and the heat was off. Leaving that kind of a package behind is not done lightly when it’s paying for the mortgage, cars and kids education..
    I also knew it was only a matter of time before she self destructed.
    And after two years she did, having a drunken accident in the ladies restroom at a high profile event, senior management finally saw the light and she was escourted from the property.

    Interestingly she has been employed by one of our greatest competitors (I suspect at the recommendation of some one at our company who knows full well how destructive she is) and they are going through the same torturous hell we went through.

    In the time I spent with her it became apparent that she had few if any close friends, no remorse, always got what she wanted in her home life and enjoyed bellittling her staff and was brutal if crossed by a member of her team.

  18. Interesting topic. Yes, have worked for a few and hired 1-2. I suppose that all organizational hierarchies, at all levels, harbor psychos already there, or can be taken over by one. (witness what Hitler did or other “dictators”). Countries, companies and departments can all be taken over.

    As a Czech boss I once worked for said ‘well I recall the trains running on time after the Nazi;s took over”.

    And thus is the challenge trying to weed these people out- they tend to have verifiable, well documented PROOF of efficiency- and usually BRAG about it during the interview. EQ - low?. I beg to difffer. I have found these creeps to have very high EQ- in that they can readily sense outside stimuli and modify behaviour quickly. - bully one minute with a junior employee, then “enlightened executive”- with great ROI- when meeting with the CEO, followed by “detailed customer services followup” (frequently blaming a subordinate for the screwup).

    TRENDS?
    With the recent trends to hire “focused” narrow skilled employees “best of breed” specialists versus generalists, I would guess that number of “free floating” psychopaths is going UP in all areas.

    Add to this the “celebritization” of our society in the last 45 years witnessed in career goals such as: “I wanna be a Director/VP”. (versus “I would be highly satisfied motivating/teaching/coaching a team of people to achieve a common goal”).

    Combine this with the “CEO driven cultural fit” mantras which are resulting in a narrowing of “value systems” and even the way employees LOOK (tall CEO;s will hire taller employees etc.). ALL sales reps looking like GQ models etc.). We have an “open- door culture here”……then look on the blog and you see NO employees participating etc.

    Then you see CEO/HR surveys showing employee stress UP, job satisfaction dropping, loyalty to company dropping, lowering Collaboration, turnover and you get a perfect breeding ground for the “efficient psychopath” at all levels.

    The last psychopath VP I worked for ended up getting drunk at a company event, insulting and derided a technician for 2 hours in front of co-workers- to the point where the tech punched him in the face- to the delight of all there!

    I recall the first day meeting him- he showed me tons of “productivity graphs” since “he” became VP” etc.
    (at that point I remembered the trains- see above)

    You must stand up to these bully’s and risk getting fired yourself.

    regards,
    Stuart

  19. I am working for a corporate psychopath now. I have been employed for about 9 months. I love my job, in fact, it’s not a “job” as I absolutely love working with kids. Yes I am a teacher. I work for a person who has recently made me into a bad person in front of my boss, the principal. I am wildly successful in my work, have had some innovative ideas and have a work ethic second to none.
    The day I came for the interview, she corralled me and told me that hercurrent partner is walking evil. She filled my head with only bad things regarding this person. She isolated me from him and said that all of the problems confronting the company was his fault.
    I have recently called her out, to her only, about my feelings on the direction we are going, as we are floundering, but she bit back, saying that “we have made our numbers every year, except this year”…
    She recently called a meeting with the principal, giving me only 10 minutes notice, when I probably could say that she knew about the meeting way before hand. This obviously caught me off guard and had no idea what the meeting was about. She dressed me down, or at least tried to, and was unsuccessful. The vice principal was there in the meeting and the vp called her out on a couple of things she said.
    The next day, she had the principal come to our office, and again, dressed me down for transgressions that I had “supposedly” done. I had no idea this was coming, but she has manipulated the principal, my hiring authority, into thinking that I was the ill of all of our problems.
    I could go on and on, but in a nutshell she is throwing me to the wolves trying to make herself look good. I have amazing documentation on this behavior over the last 3 months. She cannot be bargained with, and does not care about me. For example, I asked her if she knew my kids names…she didn’t know.
    I am between a rock and a hard place now. I have been stewing over this all weekend. I am a mess now. Can anyone suggest a solution? My solution is going to the VP and letting her know about this person’s behavior and personality. I don’t want anyone fired, counseled, whatever. I just need help now. I want to quit yesterday. Thanks

  20. I *absolutely* work with a psychopath. I was ‘onto’ him quite early on though. I have this uncanny ability to read people really well & I got BAD vibes from this guy. He is an AWFUL person! SO manipulative, sneaky, a chronic liar, patronizing, deviant, way too intelligent (uses his smarts for bad things), etc. He’s SOOO abusive (emotionally & mentally). Major bully! The boss does not take any of our complaints about ‘Dean’ seriously as he’s obviously fooled by him & doesn’t see how he treats us all when he’s not there. Our boss is IMPRESSED by this maniac & has actually told a co-worker of mine that she has to ‘toughen up’ so that he doesn’t bother her. Ugh! Sadly, our boss & ‘Dean’ are both cut from the same cloth. No, I don’t think the boss is a psychopath but, I *KNOW* that “Dean” is for sure! In fact, to be honest, I just quit my job (due to Dean) 3 days ago. I’ve been there since 2002 & it’s now 2010. This guy has negatively affected my health, he’s VERY immature, insecure, charming (false), is VERY, *VERY* fake with clients, is terribly arrogant! This entire article just SCREAMS “Dean”! I can’t believe how close it is to the way this guy is. And, yes, he’s married. Basically, to MOST people, he appears ‘normal’. Just like any one of us. Trust me; he’s NOT! I don’t trust him at all (none of us do) & it’s totally true that the more he realizes you’re onto him, the more of a target you become. I can think of at least 3 staff members who are completely fooled by him & he just LOVES them! I can tell he loves that he’s tricking them. He likes the people that can’t seem to see through him. He’s a huge control freak who REALLY gets off on power. He complains about the other vet & has a real beef with him. *I* think this is because this vet has so much more animal knowledge than he does & he does NOT like anyone to have more knowledge than him. He’s also threatened & jealous of the fact that “Kent” has been a vet for so much longer than him. Dean tries WAY too hard to show people just how much he knows. He LOVES to show how smart his is & thinks all of us are total idiots. It’s obvious.

  21. I am currently working with a psychopath. I have only been employed for 3 months. She is in a senior position and even though she is not from the same discipline as me, she has written her own job description and has given herself a role that impounds on every other discipline’s boundaries. She makes it her job to interfere myinterventions, (even though she knows nothing about the work) has made compalints against me without any basis. Escalates situations invloving my work and gets other people to question my work. She writes unresonable things in medical records as a way of undermining me.
    I am beginning to feel bullied by her actions. I know that i am not the only one affected by her callous actions, but no one can stand up to her, even my line manager. She even has her director fooled.
    I have been told that people have put up with her crap for years. I understand that there is nothing we can do but leave, however when one has to pay a mortgage and bills it makes it hard for us normal beings who just want a fair go in the workplace. I think that organisations need to do more to screen psychopaths. Becasue as a result they are loosing experienced workers thus impacting on quality of care towards the customers

  22. I knew I had a psychopath working for me, but reading this and other articles has opened my eyes even further.

    Within 2 weeks of rehiring this person (he had worked for the company previously in another location) I knew exactly what kind of person he was, however I should have read up on the proper way to handle him, which is to just get away, but I was the boss so I put him on a plan that eventually led to attempting disciplinary action (after a few weeks I saw he was lazy and a liar). That was my second mistake; the first was being his boss. He was constantly complimenting me, which I blew off, not realizing he was taking credit for my projects while befriending MY boss. He made sure they had a lot in common. I was pregnant with my fourth child and worked 80+ hours a week along with being in pain from kidney disease, too. He managed to never be able to come to work which meant that I had to come in or stay late, since I was salaried and all my employees were hourly and overtime is a disciplinary issue. I documented everything he said and did, which meant nothing. He made one girl’s life absolute hell, but he was also lying to me about things she did wrong, and she was a little nutty so it made sense. I went through six months of confrontations, meetings, he said/she said, and having my boss come in to mediate which just made me look like a crazy pregnant lady.

    My next mistake was going on a 12-week maternity leave and within a week of coming back my boss had a list of grievances about my performance, one being my not communicating with the store while on leave. He had erased all of the emails that I sent during that time. I was so focused on my baby, my family, and my job that I didn’t think past to what extent he would go to destroy my character with my boss. I reprimanded him after I had the meeting with my boss which prompted a phone call from my boss the next day telling me that HR was aware of how I was treating this employee and if I retaliated in any way, even if I mentioned getting a phone call, I would be terminated. I kept my mouth shut after that and a few weeks later he was promoted and transferred after I told my boss’ boss that this guy would be PERFECT for that position. I lied my butt off to get him out of my location. The remaining few of us noticed immediately how nice the atmosphere was without him. My poor employees had to deal with him those three months I was gone, and the lady who was a little nutty was fired by him two days before I came back from leave. I didn’t realize until after he was gone what a path of destruction he left at my location, but I still had a very fractured relationship with my boss due to this guy’s taking credit for my hard work. My location closed a few months after that which is probably why he didn’t directly try to sabotage me since we knew we would be closing by the end of the year and none of us were mobile for a transfer (except him).

    He wanted my boss’ job badly. Eighteen months have passed and I hope my ex-boss has realized by now he has a psychopath on his hands.

    I think what hurts are all the lies. We also had missing pc hardware and merchandise while I was on leave, which never happened before his hire or after his transfer. I’m amazed by how much time he took off during my leave; he worked on avg three days a week during my leave, and when I was there he had numerous doctor’s notes, and was even in an accident with his car totaled and his shoulder needing surgery, but things didn’t add up. He always had stomach issues. After his transfer he called me a few times to give me info about our location closing (which corp refused to acknowledge until 60 days before the official close) and told me interesting stories about my boss. I assumed he wanted me to take some kind of bait, so I blew it off. He would also make suggestions that the female employees in my location were making sexual advances toward him. When I started the HR process he recanted. What a jerk. He has a child; poor kid.

  23. The following is rather long, but it’s because there is a back-story to it all. Bear with me here! :P

    Well, the psychopath mentality is officially not just reserved for the office in the “real world”. I am currently in 11th grade, and I have finally figured out that a girl, (let’s call her) Kristy, fits the above traits like a glove.
    I remember in middle school, she began to manipulate the other people in our circle of friends, picking on one during a certain period of time to ridicule and have the rest join in against their sheep-like will. It was absolutely infuriating to me.

    An (current ex-) friend of mine, ‘Helen’ moved to another school during the 8th grade, and I did my best to include her in our group when she joined us in 9th grade. During the ENTIRE 8th grade, Kristy was just totally ragging on Helen, calling her a fat pig, saying she was ugly, she had nothing to offer to the world… Just horrible, demoralizing stuff aimed at brain-washing the group so that Helen would be shunned when she came back. Suddenly. Kristy changed her mind and decided Helen would be of use to her, somehow. And after that, they became the best of friends, all of the insults and derrogatory comments forgotten.

    She’s managed to shun another sort-of ex-friend of mine (I still get along well with him despite his “friendship” with Kristy) from the group I was once part of, because she kept accusing him of being gay and would make homophobic comments and get the others to join in. She did the same with another girl, Katie, getting everyone (except me and another girl) to hate her because Kristy kept accusing Katie of being a lesbian and that Katie hit on her.

    I’ve told my mom about many other instances where Kristy is just downright strange, more specifically the fact that many of her class projects (English, French class) were based around Hitler, and how he contributed to society. She also listens to Marilyn Manson, and claims he has very good political/ religious views and dressed up as him for Halloween. Yes, many could argue that it is simply fascination/ superficial interest, but the fact that she is so dogmatic, generally heartless, narrow-minded and exceedingly controlling of others’ actions lead me to believe she is a very dangerous individual.

    My mother has expressed genuine concern about Kristy being around me, seeing I’ve been the only one to ever really stand up to her anticsm thus making me a target. Kristy recently invited herself to join my tent group for a class trip at the end of school this year. She simply imposed herself on my best friend and I, as if her not coming was an option. “Hey, Allie (my best friend), I’m in your hiking group and your tent, now!” She didn’t even tell ME, so as to avoid being blamed for not giving us a fair warning of her arrival. She would have blamed the lack of communication on Allie, I’m sure. The group she was previously with had at least 4 people she regularly hangs out with. WHY would she leave a group with people she hangs out with to be with other people she knows don’t like her?! I knew why: because she was hoping to make our trip hell for her own amusement, to worm out our secrets by tricking us into trusting her. However, I (as well as my mom) spoke to the teacher in charge of it, and apparently she’s no longer going to be in our group. :D My mom told me tonight, “I wouldn’t have let you go if she stayed in your group. Never turn you back on her or let your guard down. I just wouldn’t sleep thinking of the possibility that she would push you off a cliff out there, if she got the chance. Don’t put that sort of thing past her.” I’m so glad I left that toxic circle of friends, I just wish this sort of thing didn’t exist. They have this parasitic relationship going on, where Kristy feeds off of their low self-esteem and her minions get a sense that they belong somewhere even if it’s horrible.

    I’ve actually developped a personal mantra when dealing with psychopaths (in terms of their behavior): “Forgive, but NEVER forget” I will always do my best to avoid getting burned again. These awful situations are b.s. that no one should have to put up with.

    -J

  24. Hi

    I recently got a government job in Western Australia and found myself being psychologically attacked at every encounter with one senior worker. She fits the profile perfectly; superficial charm, manipulation, intimidation, intelligent, hostile without witnesses and so. I explained to her I would get another job if she continued, and she told the boss I was causing friction. The boss came to me after the weekend and I said, yes, this person is attacking me personally, and the boss replied she won’t stand for any friction in her office caused by me. And so I resigned immediately and walked out after only 10 days in the job. Hopefully my next job won’t have a senior officer who is a psychopath, or a boss who is being manipulated by a psychopath.

  25. As a professional merchant seaman I come across these people all the time we work in small close teams and have to work eat and recreate with each other for months at a time. Psychopaths do very well in this environment as they are well equipped to deal with each other and often will target someone for no better reason than their own amusement setting other people up to fight and standing back and watching the conflagration they may not be easily identified as the cause of the stress but will make the environment less than enjoyable for all others on board . I have often been the target but have developed a resilience to their manipulations by not showing emotion to them as this is the fuel to their fire.
    Recently I have joined a ship that is free of psychopaths and even though it is not the best paying job I have had it is the most rewarding as we all get along with a little friendly banter but concern for each others welfare.
    If you are in a stressful situation at work and can not work out why you may be the victim or working with victims you and should get away life is too short there are good people out there who will value your contrition.

  26. It is very scary to realise that my boss is a psychopath. She is remorseless, vindictive, feeds on everyones soul, bossy and most of all i am her victim. my mistake was to show her i am scared of her, every month she finds something new to accuse me of or abuse me. she will make come in her office and threaten to get me fired she throws weight every where. She knows my situation that i am young, i do not have parents and i depend on this job. she is always jelouse when i am wearing something new or come to work with a new hair style. what irritates her the worst is i am also a University students in one of the most prestigious institution. At first she appeared to be more like a mother to me and i told her everything about myself she was like a magnet attracting everyone and people used to think highly of her. now everyone saw her for what she is and ran away from her for she is bitter that before. I pray to god to take her away from me.

  27. Here’s my story - my career feels all but over. I worked for the top media company in Australia as a very successful Manager and State Manager. I had a clean record, great paying work for a company I loved. I was approached by the CEO of Australia’s largest real estate website to take over a senior role. I had worked with this person previously and had respect for him. As I had been in the role at the media company for a long time I thought, “Why not” and made the move with absolute trust in the person who approached me. I thought it over long and hard because roles at the level I was at are not common where I live. I was warned that there were problems with the team I was taking over. In fact, they went to great lengths to tell me about all the issues with the team. It didn’t bother me as I had dealt with challenging situations many times - I felt that I would go into the role with complete support. Four months after taking the role, a workplace psychopath managed to convince the entire team (except for maybe one person) to lay complaints about me. I had to answer to over 30+ complaints. It was the most humiliating and soul destroying experience of my career. I had made the mistake of trying to work with the psychopath as historically, I had an excellent track record of turning people around. Not this time. I was so emotionally destroyed by the experience, I resigned. I resigned because even though this Company was fully aware of the issues I walked into, they chose not to support me. In fact, the lies in the 30+ complaints were so carefully thought out that I was the one facing disciplinary action. The fact that this small team got behind the psychopath didn’t bother me. What bothered me was that the CEO didn’t get behind me when it counted. I have spent alot of money working with psychologists to try and figure out where I went wrong so that I can get back into my previous positive mindset. All of the experts I consulted basically said that I had been scapegoated. Now, I can’t get work. Why? Because I am asked about my short stay at this Company after such a long career with the media organisation. I answer as honestly as possible without damaging this Company’s reputation. I always come off looking like I was the incompetent person given my experience. It makes me look negative and that’s the last word anyone who knows me, would use to describe me. It only took this workplace psychopath four months to destroy my career, My marriage is hanging by a thread and my confidence which was once sky high is now rock bottom. My advice is: If you have a psychopath as a direct report, document everything and take steps to move them on asap. Don’t think you can work with them. You can’t. Either they go or you will. If you work alongside one, avoid them at all costs. Only be in their company when you absolutely have to. Unfortunately, most organisations do not know how to deal with these people. Often, they are high achievers or in my case, very convincing. It’s cost me everything professionally. If I could have my time again, I would have stayed put at the Company I was with where I was well respected. On resigning from this organisation, I was told that I should have “sucked it up”. If I had known it was going to destroy my career for standing up for the truth, I would have re-thought the resignation. My decision to resign which initially felt so right, has cost me my career, my lifestyle and my sense of self-worth. I wish I had sucked it up and found another way to cope.

  28. I am so relieved. I thought it was me. I work for this woman who is new, motivated and, a complete psychopath. She came in, nice, concerned and interested in all of our work. She transformed into the worst manipulative, witch with a capital B. I work in a government office where there are always some dysfunctional types. Government allows for a great variety of diversity in the work place and I thought this new person was just another “individual”. She identified my work as having high visibility, substantial attention from senior management and she immediately pounced. Out of nowhere she began to schedule high level management briefings on the smallest of meaningless detail just to get in front of management. If the meeting went well she took full credit. If not, she verbally assaults me in front of those same managers under the auspices of correcting my deficiencies. Gratefully, I have a long career record of superior performance and the management is beginning to see through her. The short story is I have to get out now. She has adjusted her tactics now to verbally abusing me behind closed doors and physically barring my exit. She is on the verge of physical assault. I can only hope she goes t here. It would be a fitting end to her career as it would result in immediate dismissal. Wish me luck in finding a new job and thank you for returning my sanity by publishing the full detailed profile of the worst boss/person I have ever met.

  29. I ended up becoming the target of two workplace psychopaths before i even knew they existed. It not only cost me my job, it cost me may career, after six years of study and 18years experience. It seems to me that a workplace psychopath has more rights then anybody else and the victims are only given the advice to get out. Why should i have to leave an area that i love to work in because of the workplace psychpath? Why am i encouraged to leave my job, when i am doing not a thing wrong and it is the workplace psychpath causing all the trouble. The workplace psychpath is nothing but a sick pathetic bully with no feelings for anyone else but themselves. Isnt it time that the workplace psychpaths stopped being protected by the system and there employment terminated instead of all those innocent vic tims out there whom cant work because of the emotional trauma they have been through. Where does it stop, and how can it ever stop when the workplace psychopaths end up with more rights then the average worker. Workplace psychopaths are of no use to any large institution and will allways cost them more then they will give. All large institutions employees should be given the book working with monsters, atleast this would give an average employee insight into spotting the workplace psychopath and try and protect themselves. A recognized workplace psychpath should be given the death sentence, they are of no use to anyone.

  30. Run Run Run Stay and you will get destroyed they dont care about anyone but themselves.they only care about winning at any cost you are just in they way and there are very creative in setting you up for destruction planting false information with other people so that when you try and expose them no one will believe you .i lost everything trying to fight one.if i had nown the damage he would do to me i would have swallowed my pride and walked away there is no point convincing them see your point of view they dont care.

  31. The statement above makes everyone sounds like psychopath. Everyone I met so far have this characters.
    Always they lie, and do what only benefits them.
    I do not know they react or their motivation is jealousy and hatred.
    Does psychopath feel jealous and hatred? or have no emotions at all.

    I only count few people are not psychopath except them everyone is psychopath.
    I really hate dealing with those people, often find them trying to take advantage of others if they can.
    Often find them in competetive school. Music, Architecture school…….they are not even talented.
    Not just students, professors are worse.
    I don’t know if their behavior is psychopath or just they are haters.

  32. Recommend you read: The Girls Guide to Preditors by Alison Summers.

    i currently manage a small team. I couldn’t understand why staff member who just completed a return to work and is now full time, could screw with my mind like she is doing. I am naturally a strong person but the mind-games, shit-stirring, crocodile tears, harrassment, attitude, lies and manipulation is beyond anything i’ve heard about or could ever dream up. The scariest part for me is that she really manipulates me, to the point where i almost give in. If i did give in to her wants, it would be me that would be in trouble by the director/CFO. It’s is so hard and draining on my energy. It effects my ability to do my job (as i’m working so much overtime to actually do my work and lead a team, as throughout the day she just creates waves and ends up wasting so much of my time).

    Everything i’ve read points me to leave my job. It’s a real shame as I absolutely love my job and the people around me. I really am worried with the stories on the internet, workplace psychopaths only seem to end up destroying other’s careers and reputations, spreading lies, there are even cases i’ve read about recently where the the manager/boss was being stalked, threatened, bullied, and even cases of legal action for false sexual harrassment or anti-discrimination claims.

    I’m no doctor but i believe the sick person in my team fits the above category, However for my own sanity, i have now started looking for another job. She has effected my work, my stress, and my home life - i get so angry and frustrated that i cry each night and sometimes have arguments with my husband over it - it’s just not worth it. Each night after work i document for between 1-3 hours of the shit that happened today. I think i have enough for a TV series now…and i’ve only managed for for 2 months.

    Funny thing is, i actually feel sorry and pity for her. (Which i think is another mind game she’s got me in)

  33. I hv wkd in 6 different places in my 30 yr career and in 2 of those I am positive that I wkd with psychopaths. One was my boss who was a bully and when I eventually challenged him he was lovely and even tearful and apologetic, Within weeks I was the subject of an investigation based on his lies which went on for months and which came to nothing, but damaged me physically and emotionally… I got out .. he’s still there and at least 5 more people that I know have been pushed out by this evil and manipulative man. The second placewas 11 years later ..I was the boss and supervising a team of 5, 1 of whom was a text book psycho. Thing is I liked her at first and mothered her a bit as she was the same age as my daughter, I made the mistake of thinking she was the same ie kind inexperienced, eager to please etc and needing encouragement and support, We seemed to get on well. We even had lunch together on occassions. She started to ring in sick with sometimes questionable excuses but I excused her, When she was in work she appeared to be quite driven and efficient but in hindsight she was actually slap dash and ruthless, I came in to work one day and an email from my boss informed me that this young woman and another had raised a greivance against me for a number of things.including me allegedly having an improper relationship with another member of the team.and me talking to them in a degrading way and other vicious and persomal allegations . I almost lost my job which I had worked at for 6 years, They had been there 12 months!.I was utterly devastated, I confronted them about in a meeting and they denied they had said these things and instead advising that the Manager who recorded their grievance had lied! They were excused. I felt utterly betrayed and broken, I left and now work again with lovely people. I pray everyday that these monsters will burn in hell.. because they have no human kindness or empathy,, they care nothing for others… They are cruel and evil entities..nothing more!

  34. I say: Screw them! Fight them with their own armour! The advise of ” just find another job” sucks! Expose them every time you have the opportunity to do so! Always comment on their psycho behavior and put labels on every act of theirs! Like: “Aha,… conspiracy!” Hey! Man, are you trying to undermine my authority?”. “Are you trying to put me down?” My personal favourite is:TAPE THEM! Hold a small portable taper recorder on your desk, or better still, keep it on your chest…. I am dealing with PSYCHO BULLIES at work so it requires a bit more obvious actions! I have just started to evidence all the acts of deceit and back stabbing that I am experiencing from my psycho bully co-workers. I will make weekly reports (by email) to my immediate supervisor about every instance of their destructive behaviour. The emails are a good tool as they can never be destroyed! and can be sent higher if necessary! One thing I know! If nobody says anything, the psychos will think they are winning! Let’s rattle them a little! Wish me luck!

  35. I work with Psychopath who has literally told me in the coldest, most emotionless voice you can imagine, “I shot a deer hound 20 times one time but would not kill it. It’s gut’s were draggin the ground. I’ve killed lots of things, …pause, I might kill you.

    He said this driving down the road to a job site we were headed to. A couple of days later, a car went to pass us and he sped up and would not let it by……

    Why am I still there? Because I have Parkinson’s Disease and I need the healthcare that they will offer me when I am hired full time in 2 months from now. I am paying 1300 a month for a plan that is worthless right now.

    Anyway, sometimes you put up with crap while you try to figure a situation out. Am trying to figure a way to get him out the door rather than me and do so without my name attached.

    Our two higher up bosses are oblivious to his behavior. If I go to them about it, he will find out who ratted him out and then maybe I go missing…

    He manipulates, lies, back stabs, sets up to fail, the whole 9 yards.

    Eric, the Psycho, is good at fixing stuff when it goes wrong (we work for a peanut processing company). He’s also lazy and does not do much of anything when management is gone.

    I know he’s actively trying to make me look bad as I am being hired as a crew captain, which is what he is. He verbally abuses his crews something terrible, and even has started sexually harassing some of our co-workers.

    He’s had a hand in the firing of something like 4 good employees.

    He drives the company trucks like a mad man. He likes to fly up in his truck to people like he is going to hit them and then stops short and laughs at whoever jumped.

    He slammed a spotter truck (1/2 size semi used for pulling semi trailers) so hard into a trailer when backing up to hook up, that the transmission broke.

    I think he lies his way out of these screw ups because he knows more about equipment than management.

    He drains me emotionally and always tries to make me doubt myself. I fear for my life enough so, that I’m seriously considering buying a handgun and getting a conceal and carry permit.

    This company is a great company and well respected in the industry. I want to work for them and like this type of work. My higher ups have not clued into Eric’s true nature. Do I go forward with what I got and I’ve got lots more? I risk being hurt or killed.

    Stuck between a good job and a psychopath.

  36. Wow-reading your comments makes me feel like fighting harder than ever!!!!! These bullies need to be made accountable for their atrocious actions. I have been working at a university for three years, and the psychopath that I have had to deal with has become more devious and manipulative as the years have progressed.

    My faculty has had a 60% turnover in staff, and one would think that that would be enough to trigger ‘alarm bells’ about our manager and manage the behaviour of the one common denominator-The Bitch Boss!!! Unfortunately, many qualified and valuable staff members have walked away from their jobs. They later described themselves to me as feeling “useless and incompetent”.

    My ‘Team Leader” has based her career on the the work of others, and she ensures that staff members maintain a sense of gratitude towards her-even though the work is not her own. After three years of working with this psychopath, I decided that I had mentally had enough of the stress involved in working with her, and I decided to take the BIG STEP in submitting a formal grievance. I needed to get to a point within myself that I could handle the fall out associated with this step. I knew that other people had taken her on in the past, and that they had eventually lost their case. Unfortunately, these past staff members did not formalise their complaints in terms of a formal grievance submission, and did not follow through their complaints until the end of the process. They walked away down trodden and shaken by the experience of working with her. HOWEVER, thankfully as a result of their complaints, their voice does count now as I have made a formal grievance against her. Most staff members only stayed for a short period of time within their roles, and therefore had little time to collate concrete evidence to support their complaints.

    I am a compliant, hard worker and I take pride in my work. I tried for a long time to keep my head down and stay ‘out of her radar’ but eventually you do become a target. My best advice to you all would be to do what I did a year ago-STOP answering your phone at work when he/she calls, and AVOID all informal one-on-one meetings.I have saved all of my emails for the past three years, and these combined have created a solid case of poor management and bad behaviour on her part. Always have a representative with you when you have to meet with him/her, and when you place your grievance, make sure that you have organised a go-tween email receiver/sender, so that when the bullying behaviour is turned up, then you have another ‘listening ear’. The last most important thing that you should do is JOIN YOUR UNION. The union has been my saviour, as they have past evidence of her behaviour. Remember that it is HR’s primary role to protect the interests of the workplace, so going to them for help will be bias on their part, as they just want to smooth things over in the most economical and hassle free way possible.

    Also remember, that these bullies only make up 3% of the workplace: WE MAKE UP THE OTHER 97% so let’s stand up to psychopaths and GET RID OF THEM!!!!

    After I had placed my grievance with HR (through the union) I was told that I was the first one to make an ‘official complaint’ against my boss. I was shocked when I heard this as she has been arguing with ‘everyone’ for years. Another staff member mustered up the confidence to place a second grievance against my boss after me.

    So the whole process has been going on for months, but it has been the best therapy that I could have ever received. I have let out EVERYTHING that she has done to me (and my staff) over the past years, and I feel a great sense of relief. I don’t know if I have a job next year or not, but at least I’ll have my sanity and the satisfaction that she has been exposed BIG TIME!

    GOOD LUCK………………….

  37. It was relieving to read the comments from supervisors and bosses here.

    I’m the boss in a small business with high demands and lots of complexities in its internal and external relationships. I hired a new staff member a few short months ago and ever since then my life has been hell. Sweet, helpful, empathetic is how this worker came across and continues to come across to staff and clients.

    As his supervisor though its a totally different story. If I ask for corrections on his work he loses it, takes it as an attack, tells me he is working on self-esteem issues and any criticism (is how he sees a correction or suggestion) and that my approach is making him sick. The only way he can work apparently is to have total control over his work (he is a junior with no experience in the field we work in - we took him on as there were latent talents that we saw could be brought out with guidance and mentoring), and I am not permitted to look at his work before it goes out otherwise that is called interference and precipitates a tantrum and a day off sick the next day. All the while he is coalitioning with my other staff members on the basis that the workplace rules are too tough and that his way of providing a kind of social welfare service is what is needed.

    He has been in the workplace for only a few short months and tells me to my face that I am the problem. Now he has resigned after another dramatic turn when I suggested a slight amendment to his work, but that’s not the end of it. Before leaving he wiped all data off his computer and has now set up a confidante in the workplace who is reporting back my actions and undermining my relationship with my Directors with whom he continues to have contact.

    I can ride it out, and the strength of my long term work relationships with my staff and Directors will be what gets me through, but the strain of being the boss of a small business and being undermined by a workplace psychopath has taken a high toll on my health and stress levels.

    The biggest issue is the way in which these workplace psychopaths make you the crazy one by doing two or more of the following at the same time:

    1. Demands to be not corrected or criticised because they are working on self-esteem issues and can only be spoken to positively - as a supervisot this puts you in a double bind - your role is to guide, correct as needed, and oversight - but if someone says you will damage them psychologically if you do that you have nowhere to go unless you want to get hauled up on a bullying charge

    2. Demands to have total control over their work, and be secretive about that work - if you ask what is happening then that’s interference and you get told that they don’t like the way that you speak to them, followed by refusal to show you their work before it goes out.

    3. Demands that you change your behaviour towards them with absolutely no recognition or feedback loop on their own behaviour issues

    4. Victim/tyrant flip flops - if you do manage to get to be able to ask for something to be changed the person falls into a victim role to make it seem that you are being really really mean, followed very rapidly by a mood change when they become a tyrant - have a tantrum and demand a meeting with you to discuss your behaviour towards them

    5. Unfailing belief in their own abilities no matter the evidence and constant challenging that they know better than you - you’re the one who doesn’t know

    6. Dismissal of the parts of their job that they don’t like even if you think that’s what you really want them to do as the major focus of their work and the total concentration of their time on work that is not so important BUT which gives them a chance to have their name promoted as widely as possible

    7. Giving you the feeling that everything you do or so is being written down for launching a later prosecution against you.

    8. Giving out co-dependence signals by saying that your own behaviour/mood really affects them and please could you make sure that you don’t show any sign of being upset because that makes them upset and they can’t do their work - so you start to have very detached, neutral tome conversations with them only to be told that they don’t like the way you talk to them anymore and they feel excluded from the warmth that you show other people!

    In short you start to go crazy, you can’t be yourself, your team suffers and your sense of your ability to be a good boss flies out the window.

    I’ve just recently found out that under newish workplace laws for small businesses an employee can be sacked basically for any reason if they have been in the workplace for less than 6 months. As a previous trade unionist this fills me with distaste and horror but in the case of workplace psychopaths I’m looking at developing a workplace appraisal process from day one with new employees so that the psychopaths can be shown the door as soon as possible with a due and objectified process.

  38. I think you can combine the fighting and getting out ideas that are floating around in the comments!

    I had a boss that was a bully/psycho and she managed to have an almost 90% turn around of staff in 1 year, thats 8 out of 9 staff!

    I was the last person to fall victim to her behaviours and had witnessed most of the other victims. At first I didn’t realise what kind of person she was and then tried hard not to become her next target. When it finally happened it was a living nightmare, I could not sleep at night, I would cry in my sleep and would wake up in massive panic attacks. Normally when my head hits the pillow I am out like a light!

    I finally took a few days stress leave to recoup and organised myself a permanent transfer to another area, after she blocked my first attempt at leaving the team temporarily. Just before leaving for the new job I made sure to have meetings with her boss and bosses boss to informally complain about her. Her boss was receptive and told me that she had told him that I had ‘performance issues’ despite getting a superior rating only months earlier when I was in her good books. He promised to look into the matter for me.

    The next person higher up was not so helpful, he literlly said that she was his friend and that they had known each other for years and that he had never seen such behaviour from her. However I made the point to mention the turnover stats for our team. He raised his eyebrows, but said nothing more.

    I also spoke informally with HR, but did not make a compliant. I was too much of a nervous wreck and did not have the strength for a formal investigation that would last months! I provided them with my documentation, as I had been keeping a diary of the abuse. They filed it away. I felt that I had done as much as I could without ruining myself or my career prospects, as this was only my second position in the public service.

    1 week after starting my new position I got an email from a coworker from my old team who asked if I had made a compliant against the bully’s boss. I said that I had not and she promised to pass on the message. It seems that the psycho bully had tried to stiffle my complaint to the boss, after he had tried to counsel her!!

    Even though my informal complaint did not change things straight away, I think the issues I raised highlighted the matter to the bosses. Only 6 months later the psycho bully was forced to work part-time and then was moved to a ’special’ project!!!

    I think that the advice to get out is correct, it is hard to fight a bully and it is important for your sanity to get as far away as possible. But, don’t just run away with your tail between your legs! Go out with a bang and let everyone know, who needs to know, why you are leaving! It works!

  39. I am a victim of a micro managing, bullying boss. I had anxiety attacks last week and missed 2 days of work and was put on medication by my doctor. Returning to work, I went to the superior of my female bully boss. There will be a meeting tomorrow with the HR Director, and after reading this, I fear I will loose my job. Now that she knows I have reported this, after going to her twice to no avail, she is being almost ’sickly’ nice, sweet, to me. Saying weird things like, thank you very much, I am sorry to interrupt you, You are very welcome. Now I feel the fool, because she is over compensating. I need this job. Any advise?

  40. I have a boss who justifies his behaviour in improving performance. He is consistantly bullying and has a behaviour of constructive dismissal for the past 12 months. Several people have left. He destroys in the name of people need to toughen up ( eat cement). It is not a healthy environment when people have to grow a callous to go to work.

  41. I have worked with several psycopaths through the years and have been targeted each time. In my last job, there were three psychpaths who fed off of each other. Ultimately after 10 years of employment I was terminated. I have also discovered I have two of them in my family and they too feed off of one another.

    In my former workplace, the psychopaths were able to get away with their manipulation and destruction because they often manipulated the boss. In one instance Vivian befriended Dolores and became her confidant. Dolores allowed Vivian to take excessive days off work with pay ( covering-up). Vivian work load was so bad that Dolores began to give the rest of us Vivians work to do. Down right madness was occurring, no one on my team was willing to make a formal complaint, because they were afraid of losing their jobs. That Relationship ended when Dolores (the Supervior) was let go. She was so busy with Vivian she did not see the power play against her. I became a target of Vivians from DAY ONE! She did not like me and it was obvious, from the stares, and manipulating Dolores who liked me in the beginning, but that changed quickly.

    Next came Eddie the idiot, who was promoted and had no management style. He functioned by manipulating the team and others around him. Eddie was what I would call a predator. He made sexual advances at every woman on the team and others he came in contact with. This I know because some of us on the team discussed it. Eddie was charming, a great dresser, handsome and worked to position himself as a premier employee. To those who worked with him and had to work on assignments with him it was painful obvious Eddie was INCOMPETENT! He falsified data, he did not work at all, and often took credit for the work of others. I became a target of Eddie’s for two reasons (1) I wouldn’t sleep with him and (2) I became a threat, as I was being recognized by external partners and higher internal leadership. Eddie began to undermine/sabatoge my work, bad mouth me to others, and when he was promoted he stepped it up more by not informing off meetings or assignments. I complained about Eddie to higher management. I was subsequently transferred to another small department on the same floor.

    I was unable to escape. Eddie and my new boss were friends and he was bad mouthing me to the new boss. I began to have problems with her immediately. Evelyn began to sabataoge my attempts to learn my new job. She would tell me one way to perform a task and then later say, “I didn’t tell you that. Needless to say, I began to look like a trouble maker. Mind you I had been receiving glowing reviews from external partners, and other collegues I worked with, but Eddie and Evelyn collaborated to make me look bad. Despite my evidence and I had documentation via email and notes, but none would help me. I was terminated! My fighting didn’t help me.

    Someone said earlier that HR would not help you and they are right. HR is there to protect the company, not you. The larger the company/organization, I believe the less support you will receive. Your best bet is to save your reputations and leave on your terms. Manipulators and psychopaths are fraudsters, they have mastered trickery, deceit and lying. While disappointed I lost my job, I was relieved at the same time. I was exhausted!

    But don’t worry about psychopaths, they will self destruct. After I was let go, HR sent a spy in who reported to them. The entire team including Eddie and Vivian were terminated. I do believe Evelyn will soon self destruct.

    The psychopaths in my family are aunts who are jealous of me, and have been since I was a child. One of them even told my father, she is your daughter, I am your sister, your loyalties should be with me. Thank God my father is a strong man. He told her my loyalties ly with my daughter. She left with her tail between her legs, but continues to bad mouth me to anyone who will listen.

    I find psychpaths have to be the center of attention. Low self-esteem is character flaw they possess. They often present themselves as friends, trying to get to know you or your business, but all along envying and hating. They are extremely sick and highly dangerous. BEWARE! Do not tell them your business, keep them out of your life and document, document, document!!!!! Its hard to beat them at their game, because they manipulate the weak. If your superior or their superior is weak minded they will not be able to see the web being weaved. All you can do is learn from the experience and learn how to handle this madness for future reference.

  42. psychopath at my job and her psychopathic boss use religion as a veil to hide behind.. real wolves in sheep’s clothing, I guess. but I find it quite astonishing, frightening and must be the lowest form of human evil to continuously work at and take such delight in causing pain and suffering to another, then speak about how religous you are and have such a position in your church. Do psychopaths think they can lie and manipulate even GOD?

  43. sympathy going out to everyone who’s posted. I’m in same boat. my line manager has huge ambitions…we’re working (or I was) working on several firsts for my country, but every one of these opportunities has been created by him bullshitting people (politicians, business leaders, etc); he secures public funding based on bullshit as well; and he interferes in every project to suit himself (we should be helping deprived areas; he doesn’t give a toss; just out to make him look good - that is the only goal of every project).

    Sadly I am not intelligent enough to just be quiet: I have several times been so appauled by his random statements in public meetings that I end up showing how annoyed I am, and I have also in the past asked him “what the $*@* do you think you’re doing?”. So we’re now in competition (and I know I can’t win). Also I’m off sick and he really doesn’t want me back, which might damage my career. He’s a pervert with his female colleagues; he shouts at his secretary; he manipulates nastily behind people’s backs.

    He’s very subtle though; that’s the worst. ….employees don’t know why they feel awful and stressed and in particular , why no matter how hard they try, they can’t get sensible consistent answers on what on earth our projects are supposed to be achieving : he doesn’t know, and doesn’t care (save for them increasing his status). just for the record, he also has a very cold stare, like a shark, when people piss him off. really unpleasant.

    I too know he will self destruct, but I don’t think I can wait. I’m adopting peace keeping tactics and looking for another job. I cannot believe that our partners don’t see what he really is….several million pounds I estimate eventually, of public money will be wasted due to him. most important thing is to keep our own sanity: I have been annoyed…but I will take defensive measures and just be peaceful and count my blessings. Retaining our sanity is our victory: no point in competing with these people unless you have cast iron evidence of a sackable offence. just choose sanity, retain peace, demonstrate your critical role to his ego, and escape asap. and good luck to all :)

  44. I worked for a psychopath in an area where you would genuinley not think to find one. A library. The previous library manager had retired and everybody thought this new person would be wonderful. His techniques were textbook. He marginalised individuals and would build good relationships with the close workmate friends of those individuals. As such he destroyed any support network his victims might have. He would lie to his direct managers about incidents and they believed him. Management isn’t an easy area and the first and to be honest reasonable route taken is for all members of the management team to be supported. I was desperately looking for alternative work and eventually got the hell out. While I cannot subscribe to the idea that psyopaths ALWAYS come unglued (I think that is wishful thinking) this psychpath did eventually leave under a cloud and gained similar employment at a neighbouring library service. Of course I questioned myself. Did I deserve this treatment? Was my performance substandard? I was reinforced to find out that this persons “management style” did not alter at his new place of employ and that the current manager has spent the past few years “sorting out the pschological nightmare” that the psychopath left in his wake. What did I learn? Well, I can now recognise the warning signs and I keep my distance. I am also now aware of my rights. If I ever become the target of one of these types again I will fight. Fair warning to this workplace monster if he reads this, I would love somebody else to take on my house repayments.

  45. I am currently recovering from a workplace psychopath and am in another section of the hospital because of this person.
    I am totally amazed about the knowledge of this person and the many written complaints about this person over the last decade that have been shelved or not acknowledged by HR .
    Then again HR are only there for helping the managers .
    This is typical of an organisation run by persons who have no insight into what occurs at the ground level .
    This person has done everything in their assumed power by manipulating, threatening and compulsive lying to get out of what they have done.
    I have bought this person to account for the actions not only on me but others. There are many .
    Of course the upper management and chief executives don’t want to hear the truth and now are ignoring my concerns and just shelving complaints . This is a typical reaction when you point out to them bullies and workplace psychopaths.
    It is truly amazing when one actually goes into this persons past performances that ” friends” have assisted this person and these ” friends ” are in HR. Let alone how this person actually got the job originally .
    When confronted with the truth this person went on a destructive course of ranting and raving, listening into conversations to see what was said, screaming and yelling abuse ( a common thing that this person does)and then meetings , more meetings to demean myself and others, meetings arranged within 2 hrs which I refused to attend without 24 hr written notice, etc.
    One issue is that more staff have resigned since the beginning of this year and hopefully something will be done .
    I very much doubt it .

  46. I worked at a retail store a few years ago, and encountered an employee whom I believe to be a psychopath. It’s kind of funny because I started off liking this individual, even though I did have early moments of kind of feeling like there was something off about her. Looking back on it, I know that that feeling was my intuition telling me that this person was not a good person. I have a pretty strong sense of intuition and “red flags” tend to go off immediately when I am around someone that just doesn’t seem right. The thing about this individual was that her pathological behaviors were very subtle even though she was an outspoken and highly extroverted person. She would make subtle demeaning remarks to me which always left me feeling like I didn’t know what I was doing and I always felt like I was explaining myself to her about my work. So basically she was trying to make me feel incompetent. Even after a couple of incidences of this, I never called her out for it, even though I had slowly become aware of what she was doing. I also noticed that she would make jokes about other coworkers, and I would feel put off by her comments because I felt they were mean-spirited and not funny. Another thing is that she always had a little smirk on her face whenever she felt like she had just gotten one over on someone. Just thinking about her subtle behaviors and how she came across, makes me sick.

    I am not a perfect person and I know that there are times when my behavior has been awful, but I have had enough self-awareness to actually see how I could change and work on myself, both in my personal life and in whatever jobs I have had.. But people, like my above mentioned coworker are a big void. Complete nothingness masquerading as normal.

  47. I have read some of the comments here and I too can relate. I see the exact situations in these comments as I am experiencing. The way these psychos start a bunch of trouble and blame it on you, the way they garner support from other psychos, the way they have no compassion for ppl ect.
    I have watched this progress over the last 20 yrs or so in many different shops and ppl. there are 2 things that I have observed that I think are the problem.
    1. the women’s liberation and political correctness movements have made our leaders into scared spineless whimps that would rather smirk at the problem and feed it rather than deal with it.
    2. The education system seems to be turning out psychopathic wanna be’s like a machine. No God means there is no sin, so do whatever you want seems to be the mindset. And these ppl seem to be totally delusional as if there mediocre work cannot be questioned because they are ….well…..them. Thank you so much public education!
    The way they attack ppl is bizarre. They make animal noises at you or slam their tools down on the workbench and start the whole place in a contest of who can be the bigger jackass.
    I have come to the conclusion these ppl are psychopaths or…………..demon possed…maybe they atre 1 in the same

  48. If you add the article below from Dr Burch from Auckland, you will see how much value and merit there is your article. You are essentially right about workplace bullying where extreme individuals with a high repeat rate at some one in ten are really “psychopaths”. Well done for bringing this article to my attention too. In the world of law and recruitment and self care, these articles are invaluable.

    Dr Burch said his research shows psychopaths created “toxic workplaces” with bullying, manipulation, sexual harassment, lying and fiddling the books.

    “We all come across people at work from time to time who are difficult, devious and troublesome,” Dr Burch said.

    Dr Burch said most people with personalities generally fitting under the ‘psychopathic umbrella’ do not commit obvious crime and are not imprisoned or hospitalised, but function within normal society – often with apparent success and the respect of their bosses.

    However, workplace psychopaths are generally highly destructive and manipulative individuals with “dark sides” who have no remorse for their actions, which can result in a range of serious issues for organisations and the people within them, Dr Burch says.

    And they’re making you ill, he said.

    Victims suffered insomnia, depression, were more prone to heart attacks could even be traumatised to the point of suicide.

    “Unrelenting stress from a toxic workplace causes anxiety and clinical depression in 30 percent of female and 20 percent of male targets, according to international research. The risk of cardiovascular disease is 30 percent more likely when workers believe their workplace is unjust….”

    Best Regards,

    DINESH R MAKWANA

  49. I was married to a psychopath and now have to work with one. I’ve only been in the job 3 months and have already started having palpitations! From day one I was under-mined; had my work processes blocked so that I couldn’t produce any work which made me look incompetent; am always feeling I’ll be “in trouble”; am totally de-motivated and am getting behind in my work; can’t do a thing right-”damned if you do/ damned if you don’t”. Luckily, having been married to a narssisitic psychopath I knew straight away what was happening so straight away started avoiding the woman (though am showing her up as best I can -though know I shouldn’t do this…..) -unluckily I need to stay in this job for a year so it doesn’t stuff up my CV! Argh! Surely HR training needs to include spotting psychopaths and supporting staff from being destroyed by them.

  50. […] sociopaths Article: How to Deal with a Sociopath Article: Coping with Psychopaths @ work Article: Workplace Psychopaths: how to deal with them Article: What is the difference between a narcissist and a sociopath? Article: The Borderland of […]

  51. hello .
    i am suffering from a psychopathy problem . in my workplace , i doubt that the boss is psychopath , and there are other psychopaths in the office . i became ill and i lost my sanity taking many medications for improving my mental health , i think it is bad and mean to be psychopath , i am becoming more and mnore cold and have no emotional expression , i fear inspite of that to leave my job as ineed it for many reasons
    kindly any expert can give us a recipe to get out of this bullying hurting disabiliating problem

  52. I’ve been working for a psychopath for 13 years, and this has not been easy, and the simple reason for that is that there just is no other work out there. I’ve gone from a fun loving, outgoing person to a super bitch and constantly in doubt of myself. I’ve learned over the years to turn my emotions off. But this does not work all the time. He still manages to get to me sometimes. For all those out there that is in same situation as me, get out as soon as the opportunity arrives.

  53. I have been dealing with psychopaths for awhile. I didn’t know they had a name, and I realize now that I am not the only one with this problem. I have left jobs only to end up in the same situation. I feel that there is no hope and that the world is just a crazy place full of psychopaths and people are getting on medication to deal with psychopaths. Is the madness ever going to end? I am tired of this dysfunctional workplace abuse that has been accepted by a sick society!!! What is going to be done about this bullshit!?! I have prayed to God for a long time about this. I know he is doing something, but in the meantime I have to work with these nutcases. At least I have gotten better at separating workplace from home life. I CURSE YOU PSYCHOPATHS AND I HOPE THAT KARMA KICKS YOU IN THE ASS FOR ETERNITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  54. So glad I found this site. I have been going through the exact thing, and it is undermining my confidence. My manager has been going to our mutual boss behind my back and presenting his “facts” about all the things I’ve done wrong, without my even knowing about it. Of course he’s charming and convincing w/ upper mgmnt, golfs with them, etc. I do think the boss is smart and there may be a limit to how much he’s fooled, but I have asked to leave the department, so we’ll see how much of a target I now become… Good times.

  55. Finding this website has been a blessing. Thank you!

    Five years ago I worked as a Crisis Intervention Counselor. I was employed there for 2 years prior to Brenda Fowler (not her real name) being hired to supervise the Advocacy Department, where I worked.

    I could never quite put my finger on what happend, I only knew something about her was bizarre and not quite right. Instinctivley, I felt right away that she could not be trusted, and then, within a month of her arrival, 3 of the 6 advocates on my team left, 2 were fired and 1 resigned. Each of them said that she had lied about them, their work and their perfomance. Some time later, I became her target. Prior to her I had recieved glowing reviews and aknowleged for excellent job performance. It was more than a shock when my review from her came in and my performance was rated so low that she suggested I be put on a work improvement plan for 90 days or face termination!!!!!!!!! In her review of me she LIED consistently about me and made up events that had not happend. On several occasions she cited dates and stated I had done such and such on this date. I decided to fight back. I went through all the records and appointmnet books and found that the dates she referenced I had either been out on vacation or out of the office at that time. Another point she made was that I consistently had the lowest stats in the office and when I asked to see the records and statistical data for me and each of my co-workers (which had always been open records)she refused to allow me access to them. I was able to access them through other means and discoverd that I actually held first and second place in 5 out of 6 categories, and the 6th category was that of new clients. In fact, there, I did had the lowest score, but that was because I did not work in that sector!!! But, In 6 months I had seen 86% of all the continuing clients, for which she gave me no credit and did not mention. She skewed the stats to make me look bad.

    I tried everything to fight this and had 236 pages of documentation and proof that her allegations were wrong, but to no prevail. Managment sided with her and I left. After I left she went on to target 3 more members of the new team she had hired to replace the 3 at left. Within 2 months of my resignation, 1 had been terminated, another resigned after facing the same kind of abusive I did and the last moved on to a new job.
    The devestation this woman left in her wake was unprecedented. I have given only a few examples here.

    Many times we were apalled by her apparent lack of concern for our clients. We provided services to those who had been sexually abused or incested. On one occassion she told an advocate who was seeking resources for a client whose life was seriously in danger by her abuser, “Sonja, people die and are murderd all the time in this field. You have to quit letting theis get to you….’ and then she went on to mimic the clients speech impediment and laughed about it.

    It makes sense to me now that Brenda (NOT her real name) was a psychopath. It explains a lot. She turned a lot of peoples lifes upside down with her manipulitive, lying and cold blooded nature. She violated client’s confidentialty and put them in harms way and ever sufferd thne consequenses for it. Those whom I used to work with and still keep in contact with have taken years to get past the abuse they sufferd at her hands. Sad thing is thing is she has a degree in psychology!!!!! And with her title, I am certain she will continue to abuse others.

    COLD HEARTED, EGOTISTICAL, LYING, MANIPULATIVE, INSECURE BITCH!

  56. OMG!!! I am reading all this and seeing so many comments that have been coming out of my mouth for months. Until recently, I had not known what a Psychiopath was. But I know now that this is exactly what I have been dealing with for approximatley three years now. In fact, I am today missing another day from work because of it. I am seriously depressed and have recently went back to work after being out on medical leave for months. I have missed more work in the past six months than I have in 20 years, just because someone felt threatend by my hard work. I have went from a vibrant happy hard working individual to this empty, hopeless, and just seriously depressed individual. I have almost nine years invested in my career now, and feel like I need to just walk away before it makes me terminally ill. But this means giving up not only my income but my health insurance. I have had to start seeing a Psychiatrist because of all this nonsense. It has not only affected me at work, but has affected my personal relationships too. I just don’t know what to do. I am so confused. I see my doctor today and just wonder if there is any legal action I can take, because I have brought it to the managements attention and all they tell me is that I may want to apply for another position. I have asked to just be transferred, but they refuse and I work for the State of Florida. I just want to get as far away from this individal as possible, and heal so that I can get back to my normal vibrant self. What to do?

  57. I just finished working with Psychiopath on a major restructuring project. It is true that these people can be effective in short-run positions. However, their moral blindness and lack of focus is their downfall. In a team filled with MBAs, actuaries and Engineers, this guy thought he could fake his way through technical things and pass the blame onto his employees. It did not work. He looked like a fool in front of superiors and turned on the team. This did not work. We stood up to him and our professional associations backed us. Has been sent for extensive “training” and is being given “another chance.” It was a very very difficult period working for this individual. He lied about his credentials, his relationship with senior management, he sexually harassed fellow employees, asked people for money, and broke the law with impunity.

    Our HR officer noted, similar to the article above, that these “people” can be useful. However, the wake destruction they leave behind them is staggering.

  58. I am absolutely dumbfounded as to why upper management/CEOs/HR (who sole job is to look out for the company and not the employees) cannot see that ONE person is costing them money, resources, and valuable employees.

    This makes absolutely no sense to me! Why can’t they see that the only difference between employee A & B is the title?

    Employee A has a history of complaints, a high turnover rate which eats into profits because it costs money to recruit new employees, and constantly puts the company at risk for lawsuits.

    Employee B does their job, saves the company money, doesn’t waste time and company resources on personal issues and vendettas, has great ideas which can benefit the company.

    Yet, because Employee A has the title of ‘manager’ or ‘director’, they decide that Employee B is expendable?

    Umm, ok.

  59. I am ashamed to say that I actually hired one! I knew this woman as a sales rep that called on a previous company where I worked. Several years later, she happened to show up in the lobby of my current employer and spotted me. We chatted and had lunch a few weeks later. She came off very professional, confident and capable. (My first clue should have been that she had been terminated from several sales jobs-but then again, she was 58 years old so I chose to believe her stories of “victimization”). BIG MISTAKE! Once hired, she worked for me. She continually “stirred the pot.” She circulated in the office and the factory to make sure she had all the gossip, and helped to spread it. She was constantly in my office, telling me embellished stories of who did what to her, or who said what about me and seemed to be drawn to anyone that she felt she could use to her advantage. She made sure to keep me close which served to assist her in her grandiose schemes to “divide and conquer.” I noticed that she always had complaints about her adult sons (her oldest son had committed suicide before he was 30 after his wife died after giving birth to their 2nd child) leaving two grandchildren that want nothing to do with her. Her other son’s refuse to be controlled, so she hates their wives/girlfriends. She has a feeling of superiority over everyone, and quite frankly, made many peoples life miserable at work. When I finally figured out that she was back-stabbing me and just how manipulative she was, my career was tarnished irreparably. I felt like I had brought this on my self by being taken in by her fake personna!

    She would volunteer to be on any committee, charity, public service activity or employee party planning committee but not get a lick of work done. She use that to her advantage when I would want to put her performance review through as “needs improvement” because the HR peeps liked that she got involved in all of the bullshit committees!

    Finally, something happened to me of a punitive nature at work. Though I haven’t been able to prove it, I KNOW her hand played a part in it. I decided she would not win.

    I went by the book and documented, documented and documented! I showed the patience of Jobe in making sure that I gave her clear, concise goals, instructions, coaching and feedback. It is difficult for the work psycho to indefinitely pull the wool over everyone’s eyes unless they move into other positions within a year or two, and she wasn’t goin anywhere!

    After 6 years and finally getting a Site Manager that was smart enough to see what she was, I successfully gave her a performance review that mandated she go on a Performance Improvement Plan. (She also had to give up all of the extra-curricular activities that she loved because she felt enpowered in those situations). The Performance Improvement Plan was administered over 90 days but within a week, she “retired.”

    To this day, she continues to stalk me outside of work, but it is so great not to see her ugly mug every day!! Yaaayyy!!

  60. BLESS YOU ALL AND THANKYOU FOR THIS REVEALING CONVERSATION. KNOWING THIS TRUTH GIVES ME MUCH HOPE.

  61. I PLAN ON LIVING IN VICTORY OVER THOSE PP THAT RULE MY WORKPLACE-I DO FEEL SO BLESSED TO FIND OUT THE ACTUAL REASON A PERSON ACTS LIKE THAT. AGAIN,THANKYOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TESTIMONY’S.

    AND I WISH YOU ALL THE BEST AS YOU MOVE THROUGH YOUR SITUATIONS WITH THESE PP’S.

  62. THE WORSE PART FOR ME RIGHT NOW IS FEELING DUPPED BY THE PP OVER THE YEARS, THE CHARM AND CHARISMA THAT HAS LED TO LIES AND COVERUPS. I FEEL SAD, BUT NOT ALONE. AS I READ BOOKS NOW I SEE THAT IT WAS MY OWN UPBRINGING AND LIFE EXPERIENCE THAT LED TO THIS. I WOULD LIKE INSTANT CHANGE OF CONDITIONS AND FEELINGS, BUT I AM WILLING TO ALLOW SOME TIME FOR MYSELF TO FEEL STRONGER AND SAFER. I DO KNOW THAT THEY CAN’T HURT ME, ESPECIALLY NOW THAT I AM ARMED WITH KNOWLEDGE.

  63. AND NOW I SEE OTHERS WHO ARE STILL UNDER THEIR SPELL…..AND KNOWING THAT THEY WILL HAVE TO FIGURE IT OUT FOR THEMSELF LIKE I DID.

  64. BECAUSE I WAS TOLD AND DIDNT BELIEVE IT TILL NOW

  65. After reading about a workplace psychopath, I realize that I have been working with one for the last 4 years. She has caused meto be on high blood pressure medication and stress leave. She tries to make me feel I’m to blame for everything by telling me I have an attitude problem. She has been harassing me for a long time. The other day she got other people to gang up on me. This ended up costing me my job. I have bent over backwards to help this pschopath and she takes the credit for everything. She is really good at twisting things around to make herself the best. She would throw you under the bus in seconds to get what she wants. Most psychopaths live with each other and in saying that, her husband is one too. He went camping with two people from his work and then the following Monday they were both fired from their job. He went back and told the company what they said to get himself higher up the ladder.

  66. I AGREE WITH YOU THAT SEEM TO CLING TO EACH OTHER IN MANY WAYS. IM SO GRATEFUL I GOT THIS EDUCATION HERE BECAUSE NOW I HAVE SOME AWARNESS AND SOME TOOLS TO SEE THESE TRAINS COMING AT ME. NOT MUCH I CAN DO ABOUT THE PAST BUT I CAN SEE IT SO CLEARLY NOW.

    AGAIN, THANKYOU EVERYONE FOR SHARING THIS INCREDIBLE AND DUMBFOUNDING REALIZATION.

  67. I COME HERE DAILY FOR STRENGTH AND REMINDING, THANKYOU.

  68. STILL HERE GOING FORWARD WITH THIS NEW DATA, I’M SO MUCH MORE AWARE NOW-THANKYOU!

  69. I work for a company that goes through re-structures like you’d go though underwear.

    We’ve been on less wages than 4 years ago, yet other states have slacked and we’ve carried them for years.

    Been through advancement, achievement etc. Wife got cancer and left me with the mortgage, got deeply depressed and developed a drinking issue. However, this did not impact on my results.

    All of a sudden we have new management in another state and my boss and team are being micro managed. Split apart.

    I was very fortunate to have work/study/life flexibility. Now thats gone and I can’t break the depression.

    HR is involved now. LIFE SUCKS.

  70. OMG IT’S ME OR THEM…I CHOOSE ME.

  71. JUST FOR TODAY I WILL FEEL SAFE IN MY WORKPLACE. JUST FOR TODAY I WILL IMAGINE THE PP’S WILL BE REASONABLE.

  72. I FEEL I HAVE A BIT OF SUNSHINE COMING THROUGH THE WINDOW & I HOPE TO BRING GOOD NEWS SOON. THE PP ACTED OUT IN FRONT OF THE WRONG PEOPLE I THINK…I HOPE.

  73. NOW I FEEL I’VE SAID TO MUCH, AND THAT FAST MAY HAVE CAUSED MYSELF MORE PROBLEMS…ONLY TIME WILL TELL. WISH I’D KNOWN ABOUT THIS MANY YEARS AGO. I KNOW THEY FOOL SO MANY AND ARE MORE RUTHLESS THAN ME-MY ONLY HOPE NOW IS IF THEY DECIDE TO QUIT. I SURE CAN’T. I HOPE YOU ALL ARE FINDING SOME PEACE WITH YOUR JOBS.

  74. These stories are all to similar to mine. I realised last year my manager is a truely disturbed individual. in fact if these creeps belong to some clandistine nation i’m pretty sure this guy could be there king.

    I work in dissabilty support and my manager and I oversee a smallish team of individuals.

    I noticed early on that he was a pretty aggresive personality and he had to do everything himself ,my role was suposed to one of support for him and our team though I quickly became aware that the role didn’t really exist as he completely excluded assistance in any shape or form.Then the complaining of my abilities began ,whatever I did was never enough or often way to much,basically everything everyone did was wrong that included other managers, senior management and the organization itself.One little trick he kept using which isn’t mentioned to much in others experiances is gaslighting, he would often recall some completely random and insignificantly obscure event from months previously and give me two seconds to respond before telling me my memory is shot and of course continually relay that bad memory problem to others.I suspected for some time away from prying eyes he was likely physically abusive with some of our
    team but i was so far out of the loop I could never catch him at it , but I could see the fear .I know from
    his last workplace a long term employee who he pushed right to the edge quite eloquantly dealt with him by a
    right to end of his nose.His escalating abusive behaviour became so bad towards all of us after one of his screaming fits I tried to disscuss them ,ironic as it seems he launched straight into another about how poor my performance is and how he wants me replaced. I brought it up with HR what was happening a week later though declined to make it formal as he did improve for a short time.He finally slipped and got caught out with a complaint made against him by one of our team while i was away on leave ,I wasn’t involved any investigatigation(Iwish they had asked me what was likely going on ) but I believe he was able to lie and disscredit his victim enough to barely keep his job.Though he honestly dosn’t believe he did anything wrong and hes still the only one who does anything positive in the workplace.

    I’ve recently moved sideways away from him, into a role he believes he should also be overseeing,didn’t he like that, and am unsure if its far enough as hes still in my face whenever he can, time will tell if I can sort out my head from this mess. The organization I work for is a good one as are the people in it , save one , but these types are adept at hiding there true ways and as such its hard to find them out .

  75. “but I believe he was able to lie and disscredit his victim enough to barely keep his job”
    “The organization I work for is a good one as are the people in it , save one , but these types are adept at hiding there true ways and as such its hard to find them out ”

    THIS REALLY RINGS WITH ME AS MY SITUATION THIS PAST MONTH-TIME WILL TELL IF I HAVE BEEN DISSCREDITED. I’M THINKING ,THOUGH, THAT THE ONE COULD BE OFF MY BACK NOW,HOPEFULLY FOR GOOD.

  76. LEWIS, SIDEWAYS FROM THE PP SOUNDS GOOD. I’M HOPING FOR A SIDEWAYS SOLUTION FOR NOW.

  77. I have determined that many psycho’s are able through manipulation, to get some dirt on their superiors and then use this info. as a form of blackmail. You fire me, I take you down with me. If you can’t leave your job, make sure you consider all the angles of your interactions with these people, because they sure are. If you are not sure about who and what you are dealing with try subtle humor around them. They will not get it. Dry humor is lost on them. The one I deal with every day will get it good one day. He’s hurt too many people and animals to keep escaping the consequences of his actions. These individuals should all be removed from society. unfortunately, it looks like I may have to get some supervisors fired before the psycho will be let go. But then he’s still out there. This whole thing does not end well for anyone at my company. Some humans are scum. And some managers are ignorant of human nature. I will defend myself.

  78. IT APPEARS THE PP’S AT MY JOB SIGHT ARE BEING CONTROLLED BY UPPER MGMT AT THE MOMENT.I AM FEELING VERY BLESSED BECAUSE OF THIS, AND LOOK FORWARD TO THIS NEW WAY OF WORK LIFE TO CONTINUE.

  79. Well its been a couple of weeks away from the individual I mentioned above and I do feel my mental health is slowly improving, I can’t believe how wrapped up inthis fellows web I had become , you know I would return to work on the weekend at times to make sure I’d put a clipboard or some other small piece of something in its correct place, hows that for self doubt ?

    Your quite correct John in considering all the angles and interactions,my manager last year rang my wife and harrased her while I lay in a hospital bed looking at major surgery(he knew I was in hospital), not out of concern , but simply because something was going on he had no control over, when I returned to work the FIRST thing he attempted to do was to present a picture to me that she was somehow wrong in how she dealt with him that day all those weeks before, such is there deep rooted fear of being found out.

    Sincere best wishes to those who come across one these types in life and your journey to break free from there grip , I do have some pity for these sick people , but it has to be tempered against there complete lack of humanity in all facets of day to day dealings with others.

  80. I AGREE LEWIS, I SURE FEEL FOR THESE THOUGHTLESS PP’S, BUT NOW I AM FREE FROM THE URGE TO HELP THEM . THEY DON’T REALLY WANT HELP JUST SOMEONE TO CONTROL. I APPRECIATE I NO LONGER IN THE GRASP OF THE PP. AND I REALLY APPRECIATE THIS WEBSITE AND ALL THE BOOKS THAT I AM READING ABOUT THIS NOW. THANKYOU SO MUCH ALL THAT HAVE ADDED TO MY EDUCATION OF THIS CONDITION

  81. AS I READ MY POST I REALIZE THAT I TOO PITY THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE SICK, AND IT’S NOT MY JOB TO FIX THEM. I LOVE THAT GOOD NEWS.

  82. WHEN I’M FEELING TOO SOFT HEARTED TOWARD THE PP I WANT TO REMEMBER MY COMMITMENT TO LEAVE THAT ONE OUT OF MY LIFE FOR GOOD.

  83. TODAY I AM REMEMBERING NOT TO GET HOOKED IN TO PP’S MANIPULATIONS. I REMOVE MYSELF FROM FEELING THEIR STRONG PRESENSE.

  84. My superviser does all ov the above but shes done this to more than on person so where going to stick together to take her down, there is no more manupliating for us its gone to far.
    It’s that bad at my workplace she has put this artical up in our work room trying to label some of us as pschopaths, some people have taken her bait and its completed ruined our team work. We work in a war zone her team vs us, we have tried to tell her team time and time again if something goes wrong u will up being nothing but fodder for her to use to protect her own intrests
    Im not going to walk away i will fight for my rights and will not back down, u cant let these people walk all over u even if it costs u your job isnt it better to fight for rights and dignity leaving knowing at least i tried to do whats right. whats gona happen where u leave there just goning to move onto the next person and there going to have to cop the same torment. Theres always other jobs anyway.
    And if u do read this my super superviser thanks for the understanding of who u are this has really helped a lot.
    N.T.

  85. I HAVE CERTAINLY HAD QUITE THE EDUCATION GETTING IN AND OUT OF CLOSE RANGE OF THE PP’S AT MY WORK. I COUNT MY BLESSINGS THAT THE PERSON I CONSULTED WAS NOT A PP, OR IF SO AT LEAST FELT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO PROTECT ME.

    GOOD LUCK SPOT WITH YOUR SITUATION.

  86. TO SPOT.

    If your supervisor is like that then why dont you leave? as you said there are other jobs out there why not save the little bit of dignity you have left and take them?
    Every person with the internet has access to this article how do you know it was her that put it up and not one of your other collegues? by the sounds of it you are confusing manipulation with professionalism. try going to work doing your job and maybe then there wont be a problem.

    :)

  87. Great stuff spot if you can grab a little personal victory in dealing with these types all the better for your
    mental health.

    Less ,,, (4 questions/ attacks in a paragraph),,, and the old grab of of professionalism to defend clearly
    an outdated and failed method of people management , good luck with that hole your digging you’ll never see its got so deep you can’t climb out.

  88. I THINK I FOUND THE ONE PERSON WHO WILL MAKE MY WORK LIFE BETTER.THIS BLOG HAS CERTAINLY BEEN SENT FROM ABOVE. I TOO SEEM TO BE GETTING A BIT OF PERSONAL VICTORY IN MY DEALINGS WITH THE PP.

    IT IS CERTAINLY A NEW WORLD.

  89. PPs are also found outside the workplace. My daughter was flatting with 7 others. One was a PP. His girlfriend was his willing accompliss. They targeted my daughter and used all the techniques that PP use. She started calling us crying over the phone and was virtually a prisoner in her room.

    I told her to that she could only be a victim if she allowed herself to be victimised. Bullies can only be bullies if they have a victim. There are some remarkable studies about jailer/prisoner behaviour. If you think you are a victim, you will act like a victim, you will be a victim. Don’t be a victim.

    I told her she needed to emotionally disconnect herself from the bullies. PPs get a kick out of enciting an emotional response from their target. Many comments above talk about stress and anxiety induced by PP. It is a vicious circle that gives more control to the PP. PPs treat people like objects because they lack true emotions. Normal people can learn to treat a PP as an object. Learn to treat PPs like a piece of wood. You will never get praise or respect from a piece of wood, don’t expect it from a PP. Learn not to respond emotionally to PP actions.

    Call their tactics. If you see that they are applying one of the standard PP tactics, call it in public. It is hard to apply a tactic if the intended victim knows and says what is happening. PPs like to think their tactics are original and that the target is too dumb to spot them.

    Always be civil and friendly to the PP accomplises. It is hard for a normal person to be nasty to a friendly person for very long. Acting adversely will only reinforce the bad things the PP will say behind your back.

    After a couple of months, my daughter had turned the tables. She regained control and self esteem. The PP and his girlfriend ended up shut away in their room. My daughter didn’t have to bully them. She just stopped allowing herself to be a target.

    My immediate manager is a PP.
    If you can’t change jobs, you need to learn and apply effective methods to counter the PP.

  90. JACOB, THANKYOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR NOTE. I AGREE WITH ALL THAT YOU SAID, IT’S BECOMING EASIER FOR ME TO SPEAK UP AND LET OTHER’S KNOW WHAT THE 2 PP’S ARE DOING. AND I KEEP HEARING BITS AND PIECES OF CORRECTIONS GOING ON. YET THE PP’S DON’T CORRECT VERY WELL EVEN WHEN TOLD TO DO SO BY THEIR BOSSES. I AM MORE ABLE TO REMAIN COOL AND WITH THAT FOCUS YOU SPEAK OF…AND HOW TRUE, THEY ARE LIKE A PIECE OF WOOD UNLESS THEY ARE TRYING TO CHARM SOMEONE FOR MANIPULATIVE PURPOSES.

    I SO LOVE THIS PAGE, IT HAS CHANGED MY THINKING AND ACTIONS SO MUCH.

  91. AGAIN THANKYOU FOR HELPING ME WITH AWARENESS.

  92. Yes they treat people like a piece of wood, but you also need to think of them as just a piece of wood. It is really important as part of the process of emotionally disconnecting yourself from them and their actions.

    I could have extracted my daughter from the situation she was in, however her mental state was in such poor condition that she would have remained emotionally scarred for a long time. I tutored her on how to fight back and win against the PP. The success of winning is the fastest healing process. She is now fully equipped to deal with PPs in the future.

    The decision to stand and fight or to retreat is a very personal one. There is no single right answer.
    The aim should not be to defeat the PP. The aim should be to achieve the end result best for you.

  93. I AM NOW AT THAT POINT WHERE I CAN DETACH FROM THE PP’S BEST BUTTON PUSHING EFFORTS. AND I AGREE WITH THE BEST END RESULT FOR ME. WHAT IS BEST FOR ME! I FEEL SUCCESSFUL , AND YES, NOW I SEE I DO NOT NEED TO DEFEAT THE PP. THAT IS A GOOD FEELING.

  94. PROGRESS FOR ME, AS EARLIER THIS MONTH I WAS ABLE TO SAY MY INTENTION TO HAVE MINIMAL INTERACTION WITH THAT OTHER PERSON. THIS TURNED OUT TO BE AN ACCEPTABLE OPTION-I FELT IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR ME TO SET THIS BOUNDARY AT THIS POINT. SO FAR SO GOOD AND I APPRECIATE THAT SO MUCH.

  95. OK, NOW- I, AND WE ARE READY TO ALLOW WHAT’S NECCESSARY TO GET THE BIG MOTHER OF ALL PP’S UNDER CONTROL……READY,WILLING…ASKING FOR ALL WE NEED FOR THIS TO HAPPEN……IT CAN HAPPEN, I AM HOPEFUL.THANKYOU.

  96. I’m recovering from a workplace psychopath. We started as colleagues, became friends and then decided to work as business partners. Huge mistake! I did all the work she took all the credit, and as soon as the work I did started to pay off, she freaked out because she had no idea what to do. Rather than decide to learn and admit ignorance, she completely lost it and sent a never ending tyrade of abusive emails and texts stating I was a bully, a martyr, a dictator, and more. I had no idea what she was talking about, it was complete nonsense. Worse than all that, she demanded I treat her with respect and not speak to her, ever. She pulled out of the business but refused to leave the premises, she stayed for a whole year! Not speaking to me, slamming her door and sending abusive emails, meanwhile being super sickly sweet with my other colleagues. She even took photos of my car not parked within the lines and told me she would take them to the police as harrasment.
    All this time I kept my head down and stayed out of her way. I would reply to her abusive demanding emails no more than once a month. I remained calm and professional, civil and clear, nothing provocative, just the facts, she would reactively reply to those emails within minutes, and they were always the same nonsensical highly charged rants.
    I finally worked out how to bring it to an end, and she left the building, only to move one block away! I found out this week she has been inviting another of my colleagues out for coffee and now dinners and is always asking what’s going on. Her name popped up on my Facebook page and we have no mutual friends, do it suggests to me that she has been spending time watching me, I’ve blocked her.
    She is obsessed and dangerous, oh yeah, someone has keyed my car about a dozen times. I’ve lived in 3 different locations since it started, so it’s definitely happened at work.
    Since getting educated about psychopaths I have now realised I’m not dealing with a normal person who feels guilt or shame. These people are constantly living in their own reality and are vigilant to crush anyone who is actively or happily actually living in reality. Do not try and reason with them, they change the rules constantly and make it up as they go along. They only care about winning and humiliating you, nothing else. Others success completely intimidates them because they are highly aware of their own inaddequacies and that they can only succeed by controlling others.
    My advice is
    1. Avoid all contact with them as much as possible.
    2. Disconnect from these monsters emotionally, if you are engaged emotionally they have something to attach to and you will remain their target.
    3. Dont try and understand them, you will get sick/crazy.
    4. Work out how to get them out of your life ASAP.
    5. Don’t take their attention personally, you were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.
    6. Pray that they find someone else who is more fascinating to taunt than you. I know that sounds bad to the next victim, these people are like crazed angry dogs, give them a distraction and they forget about you and move in the next drama a lot quicker.
    Thank you for this great forum, it’s such a relief to know that others understand the pain of dealing with these tyrants. I never thought people could be evil, I just thought that they were having a bad run and needed to understand themselves better. Not now, psychopaths are evil real life vampires, there is no hope for them, they will never change. They will never heal and be genuinely safe and caring, they wish great harm and destruction to others, and are satisfied by others faults, they don’t care about anyone once they have gotten what they want out of them.
    May all paychopaths go away and get what they deserve, swiftly and justly!!!!
    Blessings to the victims and get out when you can!

  97. I LIKE THE IDEA OF A PSYCHPATH ISLAND WHERE THEY CAN ALL BE WITH EACH OTHER-LOL!

    THROUGH THIS PAGE AND MANY BOOKS I HAVE LEARNED TO AT LEASET EMOTIONALLY DISTANCE MYSELF FROM THEIR TENTACLES; THEY THROW THEM OUT BUT THEY DON’T STICK TO ME ANYMORE AND I ENJOY THAT SO MUCH.

  98. JUST HAD TO SAY IT’S GETTING A LITTLE EASIER FOR ME TO BOB AND WEAVE THE PP. SOME DAYS IT’S SO VERY TEDIOUS THOUGH.

  99. ONE OF THE REASONS I VISIT AND POST HERE ARE TO REMIND MYSELF THAT THE PP’S ARE THE CRAZY ONES.

  100. This is an interesting blog.

    I have a PP as a boss and have recently started to rebel against this monster. Like many of the other contributors to this page, I was also initially taken in by this individual, I even defended him in his first three months at the company to some of the team who already recognised him for what he is.

    Many of my team can’t stand him and he has upset them with his micro managing behaviour and general bullying in the past.

    I’ve decided that I’m not moving out of this organisation which has a lot of very good people, who I enjoy working with. I am definitley fighting back.

    As luck would have it, we have recently recruited a new member of the team at the same rank as the PP and this person has been making some forceful comments both to the PP and about him, which is making the PP feel very uncomfortable.

    The PP and I sit next to each other but he has recently began taking his laptop to a hot desk when I am in the building as we are currently not actually talking to each other. This suits me fine. I am getting to him, hopefully he will leave.

  101. UNBELIEVABLE ,
    I have just started my career as a registered nurse .
    my boss is the director of nursing at an aged care facility in sydney and fits the psychopaths criteria perfectly . I am really shocked and at the same time this acquired insight is comforting because i know how to deal with these ill people and their controlling ways, and that is to cut down my shifts and not allow myself to be available monday to friday as he has decided i will be one of three care managers in the facility , but i realise with a shiver up my spine that we are only to be pawns in his great plan , as he will need to have someone to blame . Am i getting paranoid ? Its ok im seeking therapy .Everything mentioned in the threads are evident and i can see how people are mesmerised and confused at my workplace about all the sudden and unexpected changes and sackings within four weeks of this person being employed in the position of directorship .
    I am the unsilent majority of registered nurses as well as other assistant nurses who all gave detailed evidence of this mans destructive and ruthless behaviour all for his quest for the big dollar . I love this stuff now . Im ready to implement some strategic passive aggression .

  102. Hi
    It is good that you have not been un-nerved by this director but you should take care. If you are a young newly registered nurse he is likely to discredit you on the basis of inexperience and your disgruntlement as a natural reaction to “necessary” but unpleasant changes. It is likely that he got the job on the basis that he would make changes and take the tough decisions necessary to implement those changes. You may find your new Director is fully supported by the Board despite your protestations.

    It is difficult to offer specific advice without specific information on your circumstances but I suggest you and your colleagues need to plan a coordinated and mutually supportive strategy. You need an exit plan just in case it goes badly for you. Where there is such an imbalance of power (junior nurse vs senior director) your best strategy may be just to leave by your own choice to avoid staining your career history. You need to figure out your overall objective and the best available path(s) to achieve that. In order to win the war you need to decide whether to stand and fight or retreat from the battle.

  103. At present farmers in a farming community near Geelong have Management notices to control rabbits on their land.It is supposed to be a co-ordinated effort managed by the Dept of Primary Industries.All of the landowners have done the work as described in the Act but we found that the field officers have changed and manipulated their findings to show that we failed to follow their instructions,Many of us were fined. The field officers have threatened,bullied,abused and picked on the elderly.Instead of getting all landowners in the scheme they just single out different ones and make sure they fail.All of us were astonished at the degree of brutality of these officers.We have never experienced anything like it..Once it gets into the system the senior management only believes the field officer.To fight this injustice requires opting to go to court and then everything is stacked against us anyway.The field officers evidence is king.And to make matters worse after being fined we cop another land management notice and more corruption and another fine.By this time the field officer orders in contractors of their choosing costing the landowner huge sums.My neighbor had this done to him.3 days work and charged $13,000. We are in a terrible situation.How do you tell the Government they are employing psychopaths.

  104. I have taken the leap and resigned from my job.
    As from today, I will be rid of my PP boss.

  105. Superb website you have here but I was wanting to know if you knew of any forums that
    cover the same topics talked about here? I’d really like to be a part of community where I can get comments from other knowledgeable people that share the same interest. If you have any recommendations, please let me know. Bless you!

  106. I’ve had great success with previous PP’s. Newer ones are slithering forth in their ignorance of what work should be like. I believe posting here is like a prayer. I will use the same thinking and awareness that kept me safe from the former PP’s. I actually think the newer ones are provoked from the previous ones, just scared and bitter, and maybe not grade A PP’s. I will be observing from a safe place of them.

  107. I am still seeing this as an opportunity to focus on the good outcomes I expect. I am aware that things can turn out very well with this recent flurry.

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